BRYCS Parenting Conversations:
Klee Thoo, a Burmese Karen Father
On January 16, 2007, Klee Thoo,[1]
met with BRYCS staff to talk about his
life and experiences as a Karen refugee from Burma, now raising
a family with his wife in the United States.
Comments by Topic:
Family Background and History
Rumors About the U.S.
Hope and Fears for Children in the U.S.
Reward, Greetings
Discipline, Schooling
Daycare
Names
Employment
Family Roles
Education, Careers
The Karen Community
Religion
Karen Values, American Values
Discussion Questions for Refugee Serving
Agencies
Family
Background and History: RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
My name is Klee Thoo and I am 31 years old. I am ethnic Karen
from Burma, and I have been in the U.S. since May of 2004.
I live with my wife, my six-year-old daughter, my three-year-old
son and my three-month-old infant. My father, my teenage sister
who is blind, and my stepmother, stepbrother, and stepsister
just arrived in the U.S. two months ago. I have one brother
who still lives in a refugee camp in Thailand. He has a second
refugee interview this month, and we hope that he and his
family will join us here soon.
I grew up in the countryside in the Karen area of Burma.
We didn’t have daycare, traffic, tall buildings, higher
education, or a good hospital. My thinking in Burma was very
narrow. When I moved to Thailand—and now to the U.S.—my
focus grew wider. My father was a subsistence farmer. We grew
corn, tomatoes, cucumbers, and pumpkins. We also grew rice,
which the Karen people say we cannot live without. If we needed
money for something, we would raise cows or pigs to sell in
Thailand. I finished high school in my hometown, and for two
years I taught village children up to the age of 16.
On February 27, 1997, when I was about 20 years old, the
Karen people began fleeing towards Thailand, because the Burmese
army came and took over our area. We had to run like animals
and many people were killed. We sought refuge in the forest
and eventually went to live in the Than Him refugee camp in
Thailand, where I lived for seven years. Many Karen people
fled to the forest in Thailand, but they did not move to the
refugee camp. About one year later, it became very difficult
to get into the refugee camps. You had to register with UNHCR
to get a “TH” registration number. People who
could not register and get a “TH” number remained
in the forest
During that time, I was the main provider for my father,
younger brother and younger sister. My mother had died the
year before we fled Burma. She got sick with some kind of
stomach pain, but we still do not know what illness she had.
It would have taken two days to walk to the hospital, so we
were not able to get medical care for her. My father became
so upset after her death that I took over caring for the family.
My younger sister was born with cataracts, but she was not
able to have surgery as a child, so now she is blind. She
can dress herself, and she is learning Braille, but we need
to set things out for her, like food and clothing. My father
has become her primary caretaker. He also studies English.
I married when I was 25. I met my wife near the refugee camp.
She and her family were refugees also, but they lived in the
Thai countryside. It is difficult to get a Thai identification
card, but her family managed to get one. It is not citizenship,
but it is something which shows the Thai police that you are
legal. Otherwise, if the Thai police catch you, you can go
to jail. Some Thai people lie to refugees—asking for
payment and saying that they will secure you an identification
card—but then the refugees never see them again.
Rumors About
the U.S. RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
My wife’s parents are still in Thailand. They say they
don’t want to come to the U.S. because of what they
have heard about life here—that husbands and wives work
so hard that they never see each other; that when you die
your family cannot see your dead body; that there are tornadoes,
car accidents, crime; that buildings fall down; that learning
a new language is hard.
Before I came to the U.S., I had heard that people here use
childcare, that you have to work hard, that you cannot hit
your children and you have to treat your children with respect;
and if your children do not want to do what you want them
to do, you have to try something else or encourage them in
different ways. I was a little afraid also when I first arrived.
If you don’t have a friend to take you to the store,
you are going to be hungry. It was so very difficult when
I first arrived. I went to ESL classes and after a few months
my ear was opened a little and I understood more, so I am
learning everyday. I also heard, before coming here, that
education in the U.S. goes so high that you can go to the
moon, and that people listening to a good singer would feel
so moved that they would fall down. Mostly I heard good things,
not bad things.
There are some refugees who are afraid to come to the U.S.
They want to hide in the forest until they die. This is not
just a generational difference—some older people want
to come to the U.S., and some younger people want to remain
as refugees. In some families it is a problem, because one
spouse wants to be resettled in the U.S., while the other
spouse wants to remain in Thailand. Some families just want
their children to come to the U.S. But we cannot go back to
Burma, or they will kill us.
Hopes and
Fears for Children in the U.S. RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
Since I became a father in 2000, I have met a lot of problems
that I have had to solve by myself. Here, I have to drive
my children to school, set up appointments, take the children
to the hospital, etc. I have to fight with the language everyday,
because my wife can’t speak English at all.
Here, my children enjoy going to the zoo, playing games from
school on the computer, eating hamburgers, and going to the
library. My hopes for their future are that my daughter will
earn a Ph.D., that my son will become a bank manager, and
that my baby would become a top social worker. Someday, their
English will be better than mine.
Something I worry about is the teenage years, when a lot
of bad things can happen. I need to train them well. In Karen
culture, there are teen years, but you are under your parents’
control. There is not a period of independence like here.
Reward, Greetings RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
When my children do a good job at something, I will buy a
present for them. It would be more typical in Karen culture
to give something, than to praise through words. For instance,
in school in Burma, a clever student would be rewarded by
eating with the teacher at a party, but a student who was
not doing well would not be invited to eat with the teacher.
We do not show affection in the same way as here. When you
come home and see your children, you wouldn’t hug them.
Here, when someone asks, “How are you?” it is
hard to answer, and hard to look them in the eyes. In Burma,
a typical greeting would be “Good morning, Grandma,”
not, “How are you?”
Discipline,
Schooling RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
Some parenting differences between Burma and the U.S. are
that in Burma, many parents beat their children with a stick
if the child does not listen to you. This can cause the children
to become afraid of older people. So here, it is a wonderful
thing for me because I have to use my good ideas to teach
my children. We don’t use the stick anymore for discipline.
I help my children with their homework, set up their appointments,
drive them to school, etc. Initially, I had registered my
daughter at a public school with bussing, but there was a
mix-up with the placement center, so she ended up at our neighborhood
school, for which there is not bussing. I carpool with another
family, who picks the children up in the afternoon, but it
would be easier for us if they were bussed.
Here, even if you are young or old, you can share your ideas,
but in my hometown, if you’re younger, mostly they will
use the older people’s ideas.
When I was young, it took me one hour to walk to school.
We didn’t have a lot of teachers because it took a long
time to get a teacher. The teacher might have only finished
a high school education. When a student did something wrong,
the teacher would hit the student with a stick, so little
children would become afraid of the teacher. Here in my children’s
school, it is different.
Daycare RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
We don’t have daycare in Thailand and Burma. You leave
your children with older siblings, or with a friend, but mostly
mothers stay at home with the children. If I needed help with
harvesting, I would ask a neighbor for help, and then I would
help them in return. We do not pay each other money.
When I arrived here, I had to take a test of my English ability.
It was a multiple-choice test, and it was easy to just circle
answers. In Burma, we would have to memorize a whole book;
it was a lot of memorizing. Someday, if I go back to Burma
as a teacher, I am going to use this testing method of short,
multiple-choice answers.
Here in the U.S., eye contact is very important, but in Karen
culture you don’t look someone in the eye so much, especially
with elders. In Burma if you see someone you don’t know,
you would not say hi, but here you talk to others even if
you do not know them.
Names RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
Naming is also different; it is not a source of pride for
Karen people. When a baby is born, I will look at the child’s
face and then name the child. A child might be called (in
Karen) “circle face” because she has a round face,
and this will become the child’s name. There are no
doctors or birth certificates at birth, because it is in the
countryside or jungle, so naming is less formal. I chose a
different name for myself when I registered as a refugee with
UNHCR. It is common to have just a one-word name. Before coming
to the U.S., my name was just one word, but here the one word
was divided into three parts, so now I have a first, middle
and last name. Someone with a good education might use a name
from the Bible, or the name of a famous person.
We do not have family last names, like in the U.S. For instance,
my children do not have a common last name—one has a
Karen name, one has an English name about the day he was born,
and the baby who was born in the U.S. has an English name
that we chose because we liked it.
Back home, we would never call elders by their names. Instead
we would call them only by a title—like “Auntie,”
or “Grandfather,” or “Teacher”—as
a sign of respect. So, most Karen people will not recognize
someone by name, especially if you only ever referred to that
person as “Grandfather.” Instead, you would ask
about others, or recognize others, by describing where they
lived or their family relationship. It was difficult here
for me to call an older person by their name. I work with
the elderly, but now I am used to calling them by their names.
Employment RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
My first job in the U.S. was working at a hotel as a housekeeper.
I worked there for five months, but I had to take two busses
and the transportation was very difficult for me, especially
in winter. After I quit that job, I studied more English and
enrolled in a two-month nursing assistant class at the International
Institute of Minnesota. I completed that program and have
received a certificate from the State of MN as a nursing assistant.
For the past five months I have been working at a local retirement
community for the elderly. I have evening shifts, working
seven days during a two-week period (0.7 FTE). I would like
to work full-time, if I could. I have also learned to drive
a car here, and my wife has her learner’s permit.
My wife works part-time as a personal care attendant. She
has taken some time off since our daughter’s birth,
but she will go back to work soon. We work different shifts,
in order to take care of our children.
Family Roles RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
For couples where the husband does not speak English, the
wife still asks the husband for advice. There is more responsibility
for husbands. There are the same opportunities and rights
for husbands and wives, but it is a little different—the
husband has the final say.
Our family roles have changed a little bit in the U.S. In
Burma, husbands did not help with the housework, but here
both of us can wash dishes or clean the house. I help with
cooking, laundry, taking care of the kids, but in some families
mostly the wife does it. In my hometown, the man is the head
of the house, but here it seems like the woman is the head
of the house.
Education,
Careers RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
The grand, wonderful thing for me is to get an education.
After that, it is getting a job.
I tried to enroll in college here, but my English is not
good enough yet. In Thailand, I did not study the Thai language,
but after seven years of living there I could read, write
and understand Thai. After living in the U.S. for seven years—and
studying English formally—I will see if my English is
better than my Thai, since I also lived in Thailand for seven
years. When my family is more established, I would like to
go back to school to study social work. Someday, if I have
the opportunity, I would like to go back to Burma, but I would
be a teacher there. In my home area, there are no social workers.
The Karen
Community RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
When I arrived in 2004, there were only about 100 Karen here
in Minnesota. Today there are about 500. We are trying to
build a community through Karen Community of Minnesota. This
organization is not yet state funded, but there are three
Karen staff persons working with Vietnamese Social Services.
I also volunteer to help newly arriving Karen refugees, such
as teaching them about using the phone, going to the store,
food stamp cards, opening a bank account, getting a driver’s
permit, getting driving directions, going to the Social Security
office, etc. When my brother comes, I will advise him about
what to wear to a job interview and how to explain your qualifications,
looking people in the face, going early for an interview,
dressing neat and clean, etc.
Religion RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
My family is Baptist. There is a Baptist church here in St.
Paul where many Karen people attend the English service on
Sunday mornings, and then a smaller service in Karen. In 1949,
the Karen people started a revolution in Burma. In 1995, the
Karen divided into two groups—the Christians and the
Buddhists. Some of the Buddhist Karen sided with the Burmese
government against the Christian Karen, and the government
used this difference to divide us further.
Karen Values,
American Values RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
Important values from Karen culture that I want to pass on
to my children include respect for elders, teachers and parents,
even if you are a teenager. In Karen culture, if children
don’t show respect, people will say that it is a bad
family, that you are not teaching your kids to respect others.
For Karen people who have been here for several years, their
kids are not showing respect to elders. They begin acting
like American kids and calling people by their name rather
than their title.
New values that I like here are independence. When a teenager
is over 18, they think for themselves without their mother
taking care of them, they can live by themselves. This is
a wonderful thing, but Karen youth cannot stay by themselves—they
don’t use their own ideas; they need their parents’
help. Here, youth over 18 years old are independent and can
take care of themselves. If my kids can live and work by themselves,
I will be happy.
Also, here you can become anything you want—a doctor,
a mechanic, a banker—anything you want, if you try.
In Burma, we don’t have opportunities like that. In
Thailand, if you wanted to become a nurse, you would have
to go to school and then you would have to be tall—165
cm. If you’re short, like me, they will throw your application
out. Here, if you’re small but you’re clever,
you can do anything you like. People here, even if they’re
blind, they can write stories on the computer and become a
millionaire. In the Karen area of Burma, if you want to be
a teacher, but you don’t have the money to study, you
have to quit.
If I hadn’t become a refugee, I would not have come
here. So I’m glad to have become a refugee and to have
come here.
Discussion
Questions for Refugee Serving Agencies: RETURN
TO TOPICS LIST
- With what information, or misinformation, about the U.S.
do refugees arrive? What can refugee serving agencies do
to give refugees accurate information, or to counter misinformation?
- How do the naming practices described here differ from
naming practices in the U.S.? What difficulties can arise
when families or people-groups with informal naming practices
come to the U.S.? What advice would you give them about
naming?
- What refugee-specific employment training opportunities
exist in your area?
- Resource: Refugee Works, the National Center for Refugee
Employment and Self-Sufficiency, www.refugeeworks.org
- How can refugee serving agencies help refugee families
to prepare for and adapt to family role changes in the U.S.?
What services are available in your area to support refugee
couples?
- How can refugee serving agencies in your area help new
refugee groups to establish self-help organizations?
- What advice, referrals or services would you offer to
assist someone who is blind, such as the sister mentioned
here? How does your agency address disability needs with
refugee clients?
- Resource: U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants’
Refugees with Disabilities Technical Assistance Services;
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